Can you read this cursive handwriting? The National Archives wants your help

The social post embedded in the page links directly to this page with all the instructions. Once I created an account and signed in I just selected a state in the original tab and was right there and could start translating.

Do you perhaps have uBlock Origin enabled or some other limitation on Javascript/cookies that might be messing with your login status?

The direct link to the mission that was in the social post. https://www.archives.gov/citizen-archivist/missions/revoluti...

I had the exact same experience when I tried to contribute last week. I had to jump between multiple sessions and browsers and eventually managed to log in after about 30 minutes of trying. There is no indication of what is going right or wrong. Once you're in the UI changes very little as well so it's quite easy to miss that you've managed to log in.

Once I was logged in I spent another 45 minutes trying to find a document to transcribe. Every single one I found or was given from a challenge had either already been transcribed or was a typewritten document or manifest that the OCR had already done an OK job with. I reviewed a few documents for accuracy, closed the browser, and never went back.

It's a shame it's so hard to use. I really was hoping for something I could pop open for 15-30 minutes a day as a break from work and contribute to instead of doing a crossword or watching a video.

Determining whether the latest off the shelf LLMs are good enough should be straight forward because of this:

“Some participants have dedicated years of their lives to the program—like Alex Smith, a retiree from Pennsylvania. Over nine years, he transcribed more than 100,000 documents”

Have different LLMs transcribe those same documents and compare to see if the human or machine is or accurate and by how much.

OK, fair enough, but can you find one in this article that's hard for an LLM? The gnarliest one I saw, 4o handled instantly, and I went back and looked carefully at the image and the text and I'm sold.

Like if this is a crowdsourcing project, why not do a first pass with an LLM and present users with both the image and the best-effort LLM pass?

Later

I signed up, went to the current missions, and they all seem to post post-1900 and all typeset. They're blurry, but 4o cuts through them like a hot knife through butter.

Something about extraordinary claims and extraordinary evidence? The evidence presented, a seemingly easily transcribed image, is hardly persuasive.

Still, the fact that they’re combining AI and human effort makes sense

> Furthermore, due to the fact that you're reading and re-writing word for word of whatever you're transcribing, the stories you end up reading have tremendous memory-stick. This is not surprising, considering that you are dedicating an inordinate amount of time per page, but it's a welcome side effect when you try and recollect.

This was something I enjoyed when I decided to learn a language by translating short stories. (Edit: Of course, you have to choose an author whose diction you respect. Your unfamiliarity with the target language encourages you to mull over the author's use of diction and the nuances the author is trying to convey, and then find appropriate diction in English. This means you spend a long time immersed in the imagery.)

I wish this technique worked for me. I can transcribe something verbatim and then have absolutely no idea what I've written - I have to go back and read it to actually parse the text.

I love the idea of "synchronizing" with someone’s handwriting

Someone with practice at reading old cursive would likely be able to read a sample such as this one at least at a pace suitable for reading aloud. An expert, of course, could do it as fast as if it were their "native" script.

Here is an example of a non-expert compared to an expert reading aloud [0].

I learned cursive in school in the early 2000s, but I could never read my grandmother's handwriting. Whenever she mailed me a card, I would have to have my mom read it to me.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRhDClIs8XE&t=165

For me, the first sentence was almost immediately readable, I just had to slow down a bit to decipher the name

I’ve found much of the “reading” of cursive of my teachers was just basically snobbery. If it’s illegible but curly, well I just read it wrong! Illegible but straight, you makes it wrong!

They're not "meant to be hard", they're just normal texts. The question is literally "can you read this?" because if you can: "Cool! Want to help transcribe it because the constraining factor when it comes to digitizing cursive is literally how many humans we can get to help out".

From https://www.handwritingocr.com - seemed to be more accurate, mostly getting the New Mexican and possibly other parts:

---

and I don't know whether it can be reset for a date in December or not. Cornell seemed anxious that it should not come off too close to Christmas, and of course New Mexican practice would support him. I will take this up with the Judge and with Hanna the moment I can get rid of the brief. Meanwhile I would like to know whether there is anything else in which I can be useful to you, since it behooves me to be diligent in view of uncomfortable relations with the present management.

Are you going East in December?

Has any word come from Hagerman?

Were there any noteworthy developments at the hearings on the Tenorio tract?

I have no intimation yet whether I will be wanted in Washington, but the chances are that I will not.

With regards to all the brethren and flock, Dan

Very sincerely yours, George H. H. Baser

A “Teapot trial” is not actually that farfetched: <https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Teapot_Dome_scand...>

Consider using the reply feature so that your comment appears in context.

Also your link goes to the wrong page. Here’s the right one: https://catalog.archives.gov/id/34384201?objectPage=190

Kids with dysgraphia sometimes can successfully write in cursive and cannot write in block letters. I don't know where I fall on how hard it should be taught, generally, but it's clearly very helpful to some kids.

I've always wondered how pharmacists can read those prescriptions. There must be some kind of course in university that they followed.

Might be in the training data:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=8997844...

All of the same reasons I love practicing a little calligraphy! I love how it looks as well. I don’t use a special pen but just add my own style to my cursive to make it look even nicer. But I used to write my notes in school with calligraphy (mostly because it gave me an excuse to not care about the subject) but it made the teachers hate me because I would never finish copying their scribbles fast enough.

Same here. Old enough to remember when your signature on a credit card receipt would be given a quick look to compare it to the scrawl on the back of the card. If this was still being done I’d probably fail 50% of the transactions I attempt.

Me too, and I used to be proud of my handwriting back in the 90's. Definitely a loss in self-expression.

I had the same thought but maybe on old hand writing they can't?

EDIT:

I tried giving the sample to 4o and it gave:

The following is the declaration of James Lambert, a soldier of the Revolutionary War in North America.

The said James Lambert this day personally appeared in the Probate Court of the County of Dearborn in the State of Indiana and at the November Term of said Court (1841), it being a court of record created by the laws of Indiana and made oath that:

On the 25th day of March 1842, he will be eighty-five years old, that he was born in the State of Maryland, that he is now a resident of said county and has been for the 27 years last past; that he has lived in Virginia, Maryland, and Pennsylvania...

> This is all very cool so I’m not trying to be dismissive. In a lot of ways, giving a hobby out as a way to participate in the national archives is an end in itself.

> But…computers can definitely do this way better, right?

No.

Cursive writing is analog and fluid, lacking consistency across authors and often inconsistent by an individual author as well. When done well, it could be classified as its own art form. When done poorly, it can resemble the path walked by a chicken on meth.

[dead]

> and f’s and s’s were interchanged

Could these be instances of the long s, “ſ”, easily confused with an f?

As someone with terrible handwriting but decent cursive, i think cursive provides a better structure for achieving cleaner penmanship compared to non-cursive writing. My theory is that cursive’s consistency of soft, flowing loops rather than a mix of abrupt angles and disconnected lines helps create a more uniform result.

I also remember teachers telling you when writing cursive to seldom lift your hand from the page. I think that act of keeping your pen on the page for most of the writing process encourages a smoother and more natural flow, reducing the chance of jerky, uneven strokes

Widespread literacy is an extremely recent phenomenon.

I highly doubt most people could write that well

Handwriting is a skill, you get better with practice!

A lot of bad handwriting stems from using it to write down things quickly (see: https://imgur.com/doctors-strike-5ANma ).

If you instead focus on doing slow calligraphy, your handwriting can improve rapidly.

From https://www.archives.gov/citizen-archivist/register-and-get-...:

> Citizen Archivists must register for a free user account in order to contribute to the National Archives Catalog. Begin the registration process by clicking on the Log in / Sign Up button found in the upper right hand corner of the Catalog.

Catalog: https://catalog.archives.gov/

I've heard in Europe the kids are taught script using fountain pens, which are actually faster when you don't pick up a pen.

In the US, 25+ years ago when cursive was taught, we were largely using pencils and crappy bic pens. At which point, you don't really get the benefit of staying in contact with the paper for longer.

This might be part of the disconnect.

They could be forgiven for writing in print, but I wonder how they will "sign" their signature, e.g. for legal documents. Sure, they could print that, too, but it would be a departure from the many generations before them that learned how to "properly" sign their name. Are they embarrassed that they don't know how to write their name as a traditional signature? Do they care at all?

I realize many legal documents are "signed" via keyboard, meaning you just need to type your name, but some things are still done via pen and paper.

In print? In general its faster to write and a lot easier to read, also you save time by not having to learn two different systems.

It's pretty country specific & not just US.

German school: You have to write cursive with fountain pen

South African uni: You're not allowed to write cursive, we can't read it

...sigh...just decide ffs

You do realize that you are posting on a thread whose OP thesis is that cursive is unreadable for most people.

> The agency uses artificial intelligence and a technology known as optical character recognition to extract text from historical documents. But these methods don’t always work, and they aren’t always accurate.

I've seen people do that, and the results are.. just sad. These modern models insert their twitter-era "what grabs attention must be true" view into the very little authentic past we still possess.

I'm in the US and learned it in school. I just never really needed to use it consistently. Assignments and papers that were still handwritten could be done either way. Cursive never felt noticeably faster for me to write. I'm sure it would have had I been forced to do it. By the time I was in high school (1999), i remember typing most long form assignments. Now the only time I ever read cursive is on letters from my mom and her cursive is not particularly neat or clean.

Print/block letters. Random picture from the web: https://i.imgur.com/4X1Mz11.jpeg

I grew up in Portugal, so a different education system, and used cursive until I was 11 or 12. But I had terrible hand writing and one day during class I decided to write text like it was printed on books, computers, etc, and that's what I've been doing since then. Still looks bad, but at least it's readable :P

I guess that using block letters, also known as print writing. From Wikipedia: Elementary education in English-speaking countries typically introduces children to the literacy of handwriting using a method of block letters, which may later advance to cursive. The policy of teaching cursive in American elementary schools has varied over time, from strict endorsement, to removal, to being reinstated.

I learnt it here in Australia in my early school years, and hated it because it was both slower to write and more difficult to read. I switched back to standard writing as soon as I was allowed.

I learned cursive in elementary school in the US. But I went to a private Islamic school

Those around me just write a lot more slowly, writing in print (they don’t connect the letters like in cursive, they can’t easily read my very-clean cursive either, which gives a feeling that my cursive is a sort of superpower)

I'm a middle aged European and I have no issue reading the cursive handwriting shown there. I'm pretty sure there are plenty of (UK) senior citizens who would be thrilled to help out here. The retirement homes are filled with bored people eager to engage in anything.

I'm 28. I can only read the document in the article with a lot of effort and fiddling with the contrast.

A dying bread of them, perhaps before they retire.

I haven't seen a prescription pad in a decade, it's all electronic now in my part of the southern US, my current pharmacist is so young I don't know if they would even be able to read some of my previous providers writing.

Why would they? It’s an anachronism optimizing for writing speed

Not that I can tell, unless you encounter a teacher who (personally) believes it’s worthwhile.

The real problem, IMO, is that they don’t teach cursive but also don’t teach typing. They’ve thrown laptops at the kids without giving them the basic skill necessary to be effective in that medium.

I think it likely that reading the great variety of cursive styles makes simple teaching rather complicated. Folks who spent years in school reading and writing in cursive can quickly adapt to the various styles, in a way that I'm not sure it could be done in a simple tutorial.

> I wonder if they've considered making a simple tutorial on how to read cursive?

In generations past, this was called "elementary school."

i dont think the problem is the lack of resources to learn how to read and write cursive

Actually I think in 2025 you are correct, we just haven’t got the best tech into the OCR software that’s out there in the real world. I just pasted the letter from the article into ChatGPT (4o) and asked “what does this old letter say?” The response:

—-

The following is the declaration of James Lambert, a soldier of the Revolutionary War in North America.

The said James Lambert on this day personally appeared in the Probate Court of the County of Dearborn in the State of Indiana and at the November Term of said Court (1841), it being a court of record established by the laws of Indiana and made oath that:

On the 25th day of March 1842 he will be eighty-five years old; that he was born in the State of Maryland; that he is now a resident of said county and has been for the 27 years last past; that he has lived in Virginia, Maryland, Pennsylvania…

—-

I've been trying every state of the art OCR solution on my students' handwritten essays for fifteen years and have yet to find anything even close to acceptable.

> I don’t think I believe that OCR can’t do it but random humans can

Considering the people involved are experts in their field, are certainly aware of OCR capabilities, and have publicized a need thusly:

  ... the National Archives is looking for volunteers who can 
  help transcribe and organize its many handwritten records ...

> OCR is VERY good

> I don’t think I believe that OCR can’t do it but random humans can

I do.

> OCR is VERY good

Uh, my experience is extremely different.

I'm not too sure about that reading, I got "The following is the declaration of James Lambert a soldier of the Revolutionary War in South America." rather different

Yes, that seems right. Not that difficult. This one suffers from some poor penmanship, though.